Gregory Ellwood: Is it silly to suggest that a “Greatest Showman”stage musical has to be inevitable at this point?
Justin Paul: Yeah, it’s interesting. I think the obvious answer would be like, “Let’s put this on stage, let’s do this” or whatever. I think that kind of thing for us having been through the process of putting on a show on Broadway or off Broadway in New York is it’s such a lengthy and intense process that we always want to make sure that whatever it is, it’s [the proper] thing for it. I think that’s definitely a conversation that we’ll be having and the people who are more important above our pay grade will be having to actually make more of those decisions. But I think that one thing we always talked about with Hugh [Jackman] and Michael Gracey and some people since having those workshops for the film, and there are some videos of them online that you should check out. One of Keala singing “This Is Me” and there’s one of Hugh singing “From Now On.” Since that moment we always talked about how it would be great to someday get to do this live somewhere, somehow. The when, where and how, exactly is something to work out. What’s the best way to do it, where’s the best place to do it. But I think our hope is that we would get to take elements of the film and turn it into a live experience of some kind that people can engage with and interact with, the way that they have with sing-a-longs and things like that. We’re finding that people really want to engage with the story and the songs, so it would be neat to make that happen in some way.
Gregory Ellwood: I remember talking to Lin-Manuel Miranda last year when he was on his awards campaign and he talked about how hard it was for him to write the songs for “Moana” while appearing on stage in “Hamilton.” That he would be working and on conference calls in his dressing room before a show. You guys were launching a musical on stage, you were finishing up another one on screen, you seemingly have multiple projects going on at one time. How do you guys juggle all of this? It just seems like an amazing amount of creative work for anyone to have to do.
Benj Pasek: We feel really lucky that we get to do what we love.
Justin Paul: Yeah, it’s hard to bemoan when you get to do something you love to do and get a chance to do it. It’s hard to bemoan it too much. We’re getting the chance to do it.
Benj Pasek: I was just going to say beyond that it’s exciting to get to jump into different worlds and different styles and have that simultaneously. I think that [working on multiple things at one time] actually feeds the creative process because when you’re stuck in one world you get to jump into another and “Greatest Showman” for us was a really wonderful antidote to sometimes living in the darkness of the psychological exploration we were trying to investigate in “Evan Hansen.” Getting to write songs for a movie that was about a celebration of wonder and hope and optimism was sometimes just the thing that we needed to lift us out of wherever we were. And then we could return to “Evan Hansen” and return to working on “La La Land” or whatever it is with a renewed perspective. And I think it helped the process, ultimately.
Gregory Ellwood: I know over the past year you guys have been obviously working also on “Aladdin” and there was a report that you’re working on a “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs” feature, but I don’t know if that’s actually really happening. But my question is do you end up telling your assistants or people who work with you, “Listen, do not bother us for three hours, we have to commit to this. Unless it’s an emergency give us this time to collaborate and work in this space.” Or is it just something where you can go from one thing to another all day long and it’s no big deal?
Justin Paul: I think that a lot of writers either out of necessity or out of choice work on deadlines. It’s really funny as it’s something we want to change up in our pace of life. We’ve just been running on deadlines for a couple of years now and we’re trying to sort of alter our pace and try and really be methodical and intentional about our time and everything. But the great thing about that is with juggling a few projects there’s usually a fire somewhere so you kind of go put that fire out and jump to the next. Often a lot of it is you’ll be working on something and then you get word, “Hey, the studio is saying if they don’t get a new demo of this song, they’re not going to put it in the movie,” or “They’re not sure they want to do this project” or whatever. It somehow magically worked out that it’s like a Whack ‘Em All game, something will pop up and you go, “bam, bam, bam, bam.” So, I think a lot of it naturally would just be guiding us from going from one thing to the next. What’s the most urgent deadline? Or what’s the most urgent thing that needs attention? But again, there is something that when you’re in that whirlwind of working on things I think it does sort of feed itself in a sort of chaotic way, but in an exciting way. It requires you to try to get all the creative juices flowing and just keep working and keep working and keep working.
Gregory Ellwood: I want to go back quickly to “This Is Me.” there a lyric or a harmony in the song that either of you are most proud of?
Benj Pasek: I think we’re a little loathe to be “so proud” of a particular part, but in terms of like relatability or something that feels like it comes organically from us. The lyric “I’m not scared to be seen, I make no apologies.” And then obviously the title of the song it really is a song about the choice of whether or not you hide or whether or not you let yourself be seen and I think for anyone who’s ever struggled with issues of self doubt or feeling unwanted or feeling like you’re broken or you’re not lovable, myself included, I think putting that idea into a song that can be shared with people feels…it’s nice that that has been embraced and that people find their own story within those kinds of lyrics.
Justin Paul: I think that in terms of something that people might not notice or whatever on first glances there are things like the vocal arrangement of the song that I did. Most people probably don’t hear most of the parts, but there’s one part that we had a really good time working on in the studio toward the very end of the song. There is this very low man choir that sings this line where they go, “Whenever the words want to cut me down, I’ll send a bus to drown-” I don’t think anyone can really understand the words when you listen to the album carefully, I kind of like that. I think the reason I think about that is because each of the songs, particularly “This Is Me,” was touched by a long of hands, physically. Musicians, vocalists and producers and a lot of times, that can result in a really messy, too many cooks in the kitchen type mess of a track. But I feel like everyone that played on it, everyone that sang on it gave so much of their heart and soul and gave so much of their raw emotion into the playing and the singing of it. It created something that was definitely beyond what the two of us could do. It definitely was everyone pouring themselves into it, and bringing their honesty to the track and that I think created something really special and we’re proud to have been a part of, honestly.
Gregory Ellwood: Well one last question before I let you guys go. After having attended the Oscars last year, having won and going through that night, are there any lessons you have learned? And I don’t mean like, mental or psychological lessons, but do you now know to bring a protein bar or bring extra gum? Is there anything that going this year you will now do that you did not do last year?
[Pause.]
Gregory Ellwood: I may have stumped you both with that.
Benj Pasek: The corny thing which is true, taking in all the moments that you’re sharing with your family and all that. But you’re asking about a very practical thing? A very practical lesson?
Justin Paul: Yeah. Although, I have one! I know mine.
Benj Pasek: What’s that?
Justin Paul: So, last year at the Governors Ball I spent the majority of the time I was there standing in the corner with my wife getting the people from the kitchen to loan her a sewing kit because the button that kept my tuxedo together had literally, the threading had fallen off. And I was just standing there with no button. So, this year, we will be having an emergency sewing kit in the bag with us or in my jacket pocket or something because I felt like the most lame person on earth having this wonderful, crazy moment and then I’m standing in the corner covering up the fact that my jacket has no button. And I just looked like a mess. I just looked like the dorky mess that I am.
Benj Pasek: That’s really good.
Gregory Ellwood: That’s really good actually, I have definitely not heard that one before.
Justin Paul: My wife’s amazing. She’s a “do it yourself-er.” She was like, “Let’s get a sewing kit” and somebody knew somebody who knew somebody who worked there got a sewing kit, and she just stood right there while I was just standing there at a banquet, somewhere in the front of the room, and she just sewed my button back onto the jacket and then we just sat and acted like everything was normal.
Gregory Ellwood: I’m very impressed that you guys even found that while you were at the Governors Ball.
Justin Paul: I couldn’t believe it either! We stood there for a good five to 10 minutes, but then someone came back and was like, ‘Here you go!’ Black thread and a needle.
Gregory Ellwood: Well, thank you so much for taking the time, seriously. I hope you have a great time this year and best of luck.
Justin Paul: Aww thank you so, so much, really appreciate the time.
Benj Pasek: Awesome, thank you.
Amazingly, “The Greatest Showman” is still playing nationwide after nine weeks of release.
