In the conversation scenes, you often hold on still, locked-off shots, but you’re always able to track everyone’s line of sight and gain this insight into what they’re thinking or how they’re feeling.
Jalali: Part of the reason we went with still, locked-off shots was to be patient with it. Anaita could be patient and not have to rush through saying any lines or expressing feelings. The same was true with Gregg Turkington, who played Dr. Anthony. If actors see that the crew is patient, I think they organically also accept the pacing, and that natural patience comes into them. I often have issues with dialogue feeling unnatural to me, because even in therapy you’re not speaking at 100 miles an hour. You’re reticent. You’re speaking what’s inside you, but it just doesn’t happen quickly. I’m not saying films have to be hyper-realistic, and in this one a lot of things are exaggerated the other way, but in general, I think,when some patience is shown, it tends to help things be a bit more natural.
Before the filming, we shot-listed, and this was the first time I’d ever shot-listed. On my previous films, it was all on the day, saying “Let’s shoot it this way.” And we did stick to the shotlist; it was very helpful, particularly because it was a 20-day shoot, so we were limited. But Anaita was so captivating in front of the camera. A lot of times, we thought, “Being at a distance is doing a disservice, not just to the character of Donya but to the story, because we’re not getting a full sense of her.” Even when she is completely blank-faced, she exudes so much personality. We had to rearrange our shotlist in that way often, in order to go closer in on her, or even go in a new direction to fit those particular new shots. I had to change how I would want her to do certain things.
Could you discuss collaborating with Gregg Turkington?
Jalali: I’ve been a fan of Gregg Turkington’s work for years, through Rick Alverson’s films. He’s a director whose work I really like. And I’ve been familiar for a while with Gregg’s standup work as Neil Hamburger and in “On Cinema.” I did not expect him to come, because I’d also heard that he really doesn’t do many films. He prefers to focus on his own work and “On Cinema.” But we sent him the script, he read it, he liked it, and he said he would like to have a call. He said, “I’m down. I’ll come.” From the word go, he was one of the most amazing, kindest human beings you could meet. I had expectations that he would be like the personas, but he’s just so different to those people. I definitely didn’t want him to be Neil Hamburger as a psychiatrist, for example. But he totally got the character of the psychiatrist and how we wanted him to be.
One of the greatest gifts Gregg has is that he knows how to take it to that place right before it becomes over the top. When he’s saying, “Oh, what a joy this exercise was,” perhaps in someone else’s mouth, I’m not quite sure he would have come across the same way. As a director, it’s far easier for you, because you have someone who totally gets it from the beginning. He’s amazing, and he came over to Park City; he’s been a great support. He and Anaita shared so many minutes on screen together, and he knew the score. He knew this was the first time Anaita was acting. Not once did he show a lack of patience or get annoyed. He was always very calm with you. He was very supportive, saying, “We can do this as many times as you want,” and putting her at ease.
Wali Zada: Gregg understood me, because he knew it was my first time acting. I wanted it to be perfect, and he was so patient with me. Sometimes, with some words, I made mistakes, and I had to start over again, but he was really supportive.
Where did his psychiatrist’s obsession with “White Fang” author Jack London come from?
Jalali: Carolina Cavalli, who I wrote the script with. Besides being a very talented writer, she’s hilarious, but she also has this unique way of coming up with things that may seem very random. I’ve seen that in her own work as well, because she directed a feature film called “Amanda,” and in her other writings that I read. She has a unique way of bringing things which may seem completely random or out of the blue, and making it work within the context of the story. With Jack London and “White Fang,” the idea was “White Fang” can be interpreted as an outsider story, as an immigrant story, as someone displaced much like Donya. And as Donya mentions at the end, “I relate to ‘White Fang.’” At first, she’s like, “What the hell’s going on here? Why is he mentioning this?” She may have said it just to comfort him, because he’s crying. She may not believe the correlation between her life and “White Fang,” but Dr. Anthony’s true faith in the fact that he’s telling her the story of another outsider, and how he’s so taken by Daniela or other immigrants because of the fact that he’s so into the story, that’s how that came about.
I could ask along similar lines about working with Jeremy Allen White, who enters “Fremont” during the film’s latter half and has this extraordinary chemistry with you, Anaita. I believe he has less than 15 minutes of screen time, but there’s an insularity and sense of longing your characters share.
Jalali: I think one of the best things that happened in the film was that Anaita’s first scenes of acting were in front of Jeremy. We actually shot those right at the beginning of the shoot. Jeremy is a lovely guy and very patient, but Anaita was thrown into the deep end right away. She’ll speak for herself, but I think that was helpful to her. It’s not about stepping up your game, but it’s about thinking, “Okay, this is happening. This is how it is” They had several scenes, and a lot of those scenes were in silence. Silence is always far more difficult to pull off than actual talking. In those moments, in the few days Jeremy was there for, I was thankful it was the beginning of the shoot. I think it was helpful for Anita, and it was helpful for the crew, because we really did see Anaita act and didn’t have any worries. We knew she could do it.
Wali Zada: The first day of shooting, Babak told me about Jeremy. I didn’t know a lot about him, but Babak said he was really famous in the United States. He’s worked for years. There was a scene where we were drinking coffee, he was looking at me, and I was looking at him quietly. And suddenly, in that minute, I just laughed. But he understood me, and he knew it was my first time. Looking at his eyes without saying anything was really funny for me, and it was so hard to be quiet enough.
Jalali: She was bursting out laughing, and Jeremy was laughing too. It was a surreal moment.
Anaita, you and Hilda Schmelling share this stunning karaoke sequence together. I was curious about the choice of the Vashti Bunyan song “Just Another Diamond Day,” which hit me as if pulled from some distant childhood memory.
Jalali: Likewise. I’ll go back to come forward. This was also the first time Hilda had acted. She was the set decorator on “Radio Dreams,” my first film made in the Bay Area. And at our wrap party, we went to a karaoke bar, and everybody went up and made a fool of themselves, as you do in a karaoke bar. Hilda went up, and she sang “We Belong” by Pat Benatar, and she sang it so beautifully that I was mesmerized. She was so nonchalant about it, too. I asked her if she sings, and she said, “Sometimes.”
When we started writing the character of Joanna, I always had Hilda in mind. Karaoke is about people having fun, making fools of themselves, and being cool about it, but sometimes someone goes up and sings, and you’re just heartbroken afterward. We wanted a scene where these two connect in a way that allows for Donya to finally have a release. And I thought, “Okay, Donya has no idea that Hilda is going to go sing this song and bring out all these emotions in her.”
On the song choice: “Just Another Diamond Day” is a song that I love. It’s one of my favorite songs. But it is also a song I recall from when I was younger, and Hilda didn’t know it. She would have been more comfortable singing a wide variety of other songs that she knew, but being such a good sport she was cool with doing it. Of course, we got Vashti Bunyan’s permission. And she was lovely about it. We told her the story of the film, and she said, “If my manager gives you trouble, just tell me.” The idea was always to have her sing that and then end with Vashti Bunyan’s original for the end credits later. In tone, if not in lyrics, I felt the song really fit where we were at the film at that point. That’s the primary reason why it was chosen. At first, I thought about Hilda singing “We Belong,” but for the mood and the place of the film, it didn’t fit.
Wali Zada: That scene was, for me, real. It had been five or eight months since I came from Afghanistan, and Babak asked me if I could cry. And I just remembered what I have gone through, all those memories from Afghanistan. I kept those in my mind… [long pause] I don’t know what to say about that scene, because that was a very hard part of the movie for me.
Jalali: In the script, it’s written that “Donya starts crying.” When it comes to directing, you want to ask if your actress is going to cry. And I asked Anaita, “Can you cry?” She said she’d try, that she’d do her best. And it actually happened quite quickly. It was a devastating scene to film. I’m not going to lie; the whole crew was affected by it. And when we cut, it wasn’t something she could cut. For her, first and foremost, it was a very difficult thing to do. But as Anaita said, I think she had a huge backlog to work with, to carry out that scene.
Wali Zada: I want to just sit again with Gregg and talk. Those scenes were my favorite. And also, with Jeremy, Hilda, and Taban [Ibraz,] everyone in the film was perfect and supportive. Working with a film crew, and working with actors and cast members, it’s a different feeling and experience for me. I want to continue.
Jalali: I think it would be criminal if she doesn’t, personally.
“Fremont” premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. It opens in select theaters August 25 via Music Box Films.
